When Did Respectful Discourse Become a Thing of the Past?

Fact: I used to love writing pieces that generated discussion.

I didn't care if people agreed with me or not. In fact, I kind of liked it when they argued with me, and we could have a generally respectful conversation about the issues at hand.

I am a very well-educated woman. I am also extremely well-read, and not just on one side of an issue (I tend to get historical or cultural obsessions; for example, I'm pretty sure I've read every book ever written about the Kennedy assassination with every possible bias--don't try to sell your "Oswald acted alone" bullshit to me--and I don't think there's a person born later than me that knows more about the Manson family than I do). I am something of an introvert (in other words, I do a lot of listening).

I do form opinions. I was raised in my formative years by an attorney and a nurse and later by a contract specialist. It was possible--not frequent but possible--for opinions to change in my family.

More important than the changing of opinions, though, were the discussions that happened, and I owe my parents and stepparents deeply for giving us the great gift of open mindedness.

My siblings and I accepted same-sex relationships because we were extremely close to family and adult friends that were gay. We were never exposed to anything but natural and appropriate love from these people. When we heard our friends making fun of homosexuals or were exposed to politicians go on and on about the dangers of exposing innocent children to these terrible people, we were flummoxed.

I can't believe that it's 2016 and people still want to beat down some of my family members because they were born with an attraction to the same sex. I think it's ludicrous. I spent weeks living with lesbian couples during school vacations, and it did no harm to me. I was never touched inappropriately, exposed to bizarre rites, or even privy to any porn. I would even go so far to say that it might even have been more normal than my living situation at the time.

It used to be that someone would say, "I am morally opposed to homosexuality," and I would ask, "Why?" and even though I didn't agree with what the person said, I could see where he or she was coming from. I could respect that. He or she could respect me.

I have friends that own guns and keep them in their house. I do not. They make their choice, and I respect that. I am not trying to take away their second amendment right. They are not trying to force gun ownership down my throat. We can discuss this. We can agree to disagree.

Why--and how--has this changed?

I use the anti-vaccination movement as an example.

A British quack named Andrew Wakefield faked a study claiming that there was a link between pediatric vaccinations and childhood autism. It has been widely debunked. For some reason, people don't want to debate this, which is really a non-issue (The CDC website states unequivocally, "Vaccines do  not cause autism.").

No, they want to fight about it. They want to put up Aidan Quinn and Jenny McCarthy as poster children for the "my kid got autism from a vaccination" movement. They have no idea how dangerous this is. (**Note--I am a teacher, and autism is a mighty challenge, although I see in both my professional and personal life parents that raise magical autistic children that they view as the gifts they are).

And when I say fight, I mean FIGHT.

You could show them statistics proving otherwise until you are blue in the face, and they will just stick to their pathetic, holier than thou, "You don't know what you're talking about."

THEN FREAKING TELL ME!

I used to enjoy debating politics, but it's ugly now. People see only in black and white. I'm noticing it more now because I'm not really thrilled about any of the American candidates, I suspect, but people are just vehemently opposed to civil discussion.

THEY JUST WANT TO WIN.

I thought I married men that cared about what I had to say, that thought I was interesting, that wanted to talk to me and hear my thoughts and share their thoughts so lots of mind augmenting could go on. I was wrong on both counts (but at least one never hit me or drove drunk with  my children in the car), so  I thought for awhile that it was just me.

The more I watch the news, though, the more I look at my Facebook feed, the more I listen to conversations around me, the more frightened I am as I realize that there are precious few conversations characterized with respectful discourse going on anymore.

I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me ... but I need to be able to see where you are coming from on some level. That seems to happen less and less likely these days.

Or is it just me?

A New Adult Talks Politics

As I've mentioned (briefly, because the very thought makes me break down in tears), Addie graduated from high school a couple of weeks ago.  My beautiful, brilliant daughter is leaving for college at the end of this summer; she has a boyfriend these days; she shows me pretty much every day how grown up she is getting (although she's not eighteen until September, so I still have a little bit of leverage ;-)).

Addie has always been a very cool person, and I say that not just as her mother.  She is funny and smart and thoughtful (she is also stubborn and moody and refuses to get a job, but those come up far less often).

Anyway, we were just hanging out in the living room the other day, and the next thing I knew, we were talking about politics.  Like, legitimately.  I'm not even sure how it came up.

We've talked in this basic direction before, some of the things that are on the news.  Addie's contributions are usually question-laced (which is good) and connected to personal experiences (which is probably better).

*  Why aren't ___________ and _____________ (we know and love a lot of same-sex couples) allowed to get married?  That's just stupid.  They love each other and have been together for longer than a lot of people.  Why should selective reading from the Bible supersede the main lesson of love, that none of us are without sin, that it's up to God (if you believe in Him) to make the final call after you are dead?  ______________ and __________________ are good people that love everybody and give so much to society, while so many "married Christian couples" do horrible things all the time.  Also, it's a true statistic that many more heterosexuals than homosexuals cheat on their significant others and are pedophiles.  If God is going to let people into heaven based on their sex lives, I don't think I want to go there.

*  It's really ironic how politicians will go on and on about how wrong abortion is, yet when it comes time to foot the bill for these babies that nobody really wanted, they're perfectly okay with letting them live in poverty with no real shot at ever getting out.  Mothers who beat the crap out of kids they were guilt-tripped into having by some pro-life group that disappeared pretty quickly from the picture are not held accountable because budget cuts have taken the teeth out of the Division of Children, Youth, and Family.  There was a girl at school whose father was molesting her and, when they showed up to ask him about it, he said it was a lie and wouldn't let them into the house, and there was absolutely nothing they could do ... because it interfered with his "civil rights".  Crazy!

*  Why do some people still think that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11?  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that Hussein and Osama bin Laden hated each other based on the type of Muslim each was ... why are people too stupid to pick up a book?  And why did the government lie about the whole "weapons of mass destruction ... Iraq is an immediate threat" thing?  Was it really as simple as George W. Bush wanting to take out Saddam Hussein for his father?  There are other countries that pose far more of a threat to the USA than Iraq, so why?

*  And of course we've had multiple conversations about the desperate need for welfare reform.

The other day, she asked me my thoughts on immigration.

I was really honest with her (I do try to keep my opinions on things to a minimum as I'd rather she draw her own conclusions).  "Immigration," I said, "is a tough one."

I told her my basic concern, namely that it's a good thing for our family that immigration was an accepted practice a couple hundred years ago, because otherwise I'd probably be digging up potatoes in Ireland.  I mean, realistically speaking, there were Native Americans already here in the United States when what could be defined as "immigrants" first arrived.  Is it fair to say, "Whoa, okay, immigration was good for awhile, but now we're cutting it off.  Done."?

She started telling me about some of her friends from other countries (this was the adult part of the conversation) that have never understood immigration.  To them, it is completely wrong and strange and different to allow others any fair chance to assimilate into their culture and part of the world and so on.  "But that's not why people in America are against immigration," she noted.

It was very cool.  We talked about how part of our laissez-faire attitude about immigration and our lack of understanding about why people like Texas and Arizona are so fired up about it is likely because we live in the northeast, where it's definitely not the problem it is in other parts of the country.

We also agreed on kind of a cool immigration policy.  Basically, anyone should be able to enter the United States and be given five years to become a contributing member of society (or at least show progress in that direction).  Five years should be plenty of time to demonstrate that, and the knowledge of such a degree of regulation would give immigrants an incentive to work hard and follow American laws and so on.

We got laughing and said that clearly there has to be some pretty strong arguments against that policy because otherwise it would be in place.

Anyway, I try to keep politics out of this blog, but this really isn't intended to be about politics.  It is instead meant as a testament to how wonderful it is to have intelligent, evidence-based discourse on important issues of our time with my daughter who, not too long ago, was more concerned with whether her jeans should be from Hollister or Abercrombie.

My process when getting into discussions that could potentially become heated is to always listen to what others are saying.  Even if I completely disagree with them, listening to why they have a certain opinion is often quite a learning experience.

That Addie has joined those ranks, that she can make me think and learn and grow, just emphasizes her status as a new adult ... and that makes me incredibly happy and proud.