When Did Respectful Discourse Become a Thing of the Past?

Fact: I used to love writing pieces that generated discussion.

I didn't care if people agreed with me or not. In fact, I kind of liked it when they argued with me, and we could have a generally respectful conversation about the issues at hand.

I am a very well-educated woman. I am also extremely well-read, and not just on one side of an issue (I tend to get historical or cultural obsessions; for example, I'm pretty sure I've read every book ever written about the Kennedy assassination with every possible bias--don't try to sell your "Oswald acted alone" bullshit to me--and I don't think there's a person born later than me that knows more about the Manson family than I do). I am something of an introvert (in other words, I do a lot of listening).

I do form opinions. I was raised in my formative years by an attorney and a nurse and later by a contract specialist. It was possible--not frequent but possible--for opinions to change in my family.

More important than the changing of opinions, though, were the discussions that happened, and I owe my parents and stepparents deeply for giving us the great gift of open mindedness.

My siblings and I accepted same-sex relationships because we were extremely close to family and adult friends that were gay. We were never exposed to anything but natural and appropriate love from these people. When we heard our friends making fun of homosexuals or were exposed to politicians go on and on about the dangers of exposing innocent children to these terrible people, we were flummoxed.

I can't believe that it's 2016 and people still want to beat down some of my family members because they were born with an attraction to the same sex. I think it's ludicrous. I spent weeks living with lesbian couples during school vacations, and it did no harm to me. I was never touched inappropriately, exposed to bizarre rites, or even privy to any porn. I would even go so far to say that it might even have been more normal than my living situation at the time.

It used to be that someone would say, "I am morally opposed to homosexuality," and I would ask, "Why?" and even though I didn't agree with what the person said, I could see where he or she was coming from. I could respect that. He or she could respect me.

I have friends that own guns and keep them in their house. I do not. They make their choice, and I respect that. I am not trying to take away their second amendment right. They are not trying to force gun ownership down my throat. We can discuss this. We can agree to disagree.

Why--and how--has this changed?

I use the anti-vaccination movement as an example.

A British quack named Andrew Wakefield faked a study claiming that there was a link between pediatric vaccinations and childhood autism. It has been widely debunked. For some reason, people don't want to debate this, which is really a non-issue (The CDC website states unequivocally, "Vaccines do  not cause autism.").

No, they want to fight about it. They want to put up Aidan Quinn and Jenny McCarthy as poster children for the "my kid got autism from a vaccination" movement. They have no idea how dangerous this is. (**Note--I am a teacher, and autism is a mighty challenge, although I see in both my professional and personal life parents that raise magical autistic children that they view as the gifts they are).

And when I say fight, I mean FIGHT.

You could show them statistics proving otherwise until you are blue in the face, and they will just stick to their pathetic, holier than thou, "You don't know what you're talking about."

THEN FREAKING TELL ME!

I used to enjoy debating politics, but it's ugly now. People see only in black and white. I'm noticing it more now because I'm not really thrilled about any of the American candidates, I suspect, but people are just vehemently opposed to civil discussion.

THEY JUST WANT TO WIN.

I thought I married men that cared about what I had to say, that thought I was interesting, that wanted to talk to me and hear my thoughts and share their thoughts so lots of mind augmenting could go on. I was wrong on both counts (but at least one never hit me or drove drunk with  my children in the car), so  I thought for awhile that it was just me.

The more I watch the news, though, the more I look at my Facebook feed, the more I listen to conversations around me, the more frightened I am as I realize that there are precious few conversations characterized with respectful discourse going on anymore.

I don't have to agree with you, you don't have to agree with me ... but I need to be able to see where you are coming from on some level. That seems to happen less and less likely these days.

Or is it just me?

Got Ignorance?

I am so tired of ignorance.  Saying that, I realize that there are of course situations where I myself am ignorant and act accordingly.  

I think it's that I've had more time lately to think, and what I see when I look around honestly scares me.

Take people who are against homosexuality, who claim it is fake, who believe it can be cured.  

I mean, who would choose to walk such a hard road? Who would opt for harassment, discrimination, and the probability of physical violence?  Who would want to live a life where marriage to the person you love, like, and are sexually compatible with is not possible? 

Those against homosexuality throw Leviticus 18:22 ("You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination") or even the mighty 20:13 ("If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them") around, but the truth is that most of these people have never read the Bible.  They hear someone fling two random quotes around, and suddenly the Bible is this giant tome decrying homosexuality.  

I can fling quotes, too (and I've read the Bible).  The one I try to keep in mind when this comes up (because I know an alarming number of anti-gay people) came, according to the Bible, from the lips of Jesus Christ himself: "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same." (Luke 6:32)

Judging someone by their sexuality (unless it involves children or animals) is just ignorant.  Michael Sam's sexual orientation will always be just a little bit bigger than his football career, and that's sad (I do have to confess that I've heard a few Rams jokes that made me laugh, and I am ashamed to admit that).

Live and let live.

Then, of course, there's the abortion debate.  This one gets people pretty fired up, and with good reason.  I  mean, who doesn't love a baby? 

(Sorry, any chance to add a picture of Miss Gabrielle is taken)

Speaking of visuals, though, this cartoon has been floating around Facebook and the like for awhile.  

 No matter which side of the "choice" debate you land on, the fact is that there is some truth to this.  

By and large, the people that identify as "pro-life" are the same people that are all angry about welfare (or they are on welfare, which is, I suppose a whole new level of ignorance).

I think we can all agree that gallivanting through life aborting fetuses willy nilly is morally reprehensible.  However, that is not how it usually goes.

What about the seventh grader impregnated by her father, who might choose suicide over having to tell a secret that might or might not be believed?  And the rape victim, who would have nine months of constant reminding even if she did choose to give the baby up for adoption? The parents who learn that their fetus has a condition or disease that will leave them with a short, painful life or a long life full of emptiness because they have limited brain activity?

How about the seventeen-year-old whose birth control failed? I'm kind of an expert on this one, and I'll tell you that I am glad beyond words that I chose to keep this treasure, who is just finishing her second year of college.

  

With that being said, though, I believe that abortion should be legal.  I chose to keep that beautiful, brilliant girl in that picture, and I would never go back on that choice, but I had extensive support--emotionally, physically, and financially--from my parents.  Many don't.  In fact, I'd say that most seventeen-year-old parents spend a lot of time on welfare or skirting the poverty level (and I should probably note that I am extremely liberal on most issues but I am right of the Tea Party on welfare fraud).  

Hmm, let's move on to vaccinations.  How's that for a big debate?  It shouldn't be, but it is.

Anyone who speaks out against vaccinations has obviously never looked at pictures of tetanus victims or considered the ramifications of a polio outbreak, or measles, or mumps, or diptheria.  They use statistics from a unilaterally debunked study by Andrew Wakefield, who has since been barred from practicing medicine.  

I mean, Gab had five shots at her last physical.  Five.  Would I, as a parent, put my child through that if I didn't think the benefit outweighed the risk?  Would my pediatrician knowingly inject my child with something where they felt it put forth any sort of possibility that they would be sued?

Disagreement is a good thing, I think.  I enjoy hearing different sides of issues, and even if I'm not going to change my mind, I think it's useful to think about where others are coming from.  We are all human beings, yes, but our upbringing and education and life experiences all form together a unique stew, and no two are the same.

That's part of what makes life interesting.  So disagree all you want.  Seriously, just be respectful.

And, for the love of all things holy, don't be ignorant.

Ignorance is the biggest problem in America today.  It is quickly followed by apathy, but that is a post for another day.

Am I wrong on this one?  Am I just sticking out a palm with the words "YOU'RE IGNORANT" on it in big letters to people that disagree with me?

I'm curious to know your thoughts.

I Am Hated (And Strangely Excited About It)

I don't think most people go through life intentionally pissing others off (there are, of course, exceptions, but in general I have a pretty Pollyanna-esque view of my fellow human beings). However, I think we all do it to some degree, often by accident or by thoughtless actions that blow into drama-filled chaos or even just by a misconstrued statement.

I never thought I'd be in the position of ticking off another person so badly that she felt compelled to write an entire blog post blasting me.

I also can't believe that I'm laughing about it. I'm ridiculously sensitive (to a fault, to be completely honest), and a lot of times the tiniest bit of criticism has me virtually in tears.

I've toughened up a lot in the past year, in large part because of the divorce situation but also through working at Zelda Lily. There is a great core group of readers over there that leave thought-provoking comments taking what my colleagues and I write to a whole new level--but I have been ripped a new one on more than one occasion.

To wit:

The author here is pretending her values are absolutes that everyone should abide by, and seems outraged that there are other people don’t share her values, to the point of degrading and mocking them. Why aren’t these women allowed to like their lifetyles, exactly? Is Katie Loud going to go on a Middle East tour and tear off burkas too?

I cried when I read that comment. Bawled like a baby. And then I realized that the commenter had a point. I might feel that he misconstrued my point (the piece was an admittedly hard slam of an extremely religious website that operates under the "Husband is Master ... and Wife's Job is to Cook, Clean, and Raise Perfect Children" philosophy), but if the message I was sending was that I felt like everybody should agree with me all the time, then shame on me. You know?

So instead of flying off the handle and doing something stupidly impulsive (See? I'm getting better ;-)), I thought really hard about what was said, wrote a piece here on my personal blog explaining my frustration with the challenges of balancing feminism with religion, and resolved to be more aware of all sides of a story in the future.

In retrospect, I'm glad that that comment was made, as painful as it was for me at the time. It was a tremendous learning experience for me both as a writer and as a human being.

It has also made me able to laugh--and laugh hard--at the recent incident that's really at the heart of this post.

So back in late May/early June, when I was still a newbie at Zelda Lily, I wrote a piece about an ad featuring a bra by plus-size store Lane Bryant being refused by a couple of news networks that went on to feature ads by Victoria's Secret.

Well, evidently I really pissed somebody off ... She wrote a vitriol-filled rant against me personally and the company I work for. My words and intentions are taken completely out of context for the purpose of her piece, and for the first time I feel like I am actively hated by someone that doesn't know me from Adam.

You can read her piece here, if you're interested.

I was really angry at first, actually. Then I reread my piece almost obsessively, and I of course knew what I was trying to say so her interpretation seemed even crazier to me.

And then it occurred to me how sad it is that someone has that much hate stored up from a piece posted on June 1 to let me have it with both barrels.

Then, of course, I just laughed.

The thing is, it's fine to disagree with people. I learn a hell of a lot from people that disagree with me (or play devil's advocate) since it makes me think on so many dimensions.

What's not cool is the meanness. The comment about "Katie Loud tearing off burkas on a Middle East tour" bordered on mean, but I could see where the guy was coming from when I put it into a greater context. Ultimately, it helped me a hundred times more than a compliment would have.

I'm not being mean here. I even linked to her post so she can get page hits.

I'm not used to being hated ... and I'm kind of proud of myself for 1) not going to pieces over this, and 2) realizing that I am not the one with a problem here.

On a different note, I had one of the most traumatic events of my life happen to me today, and I'll be blogging about it tomorrow. I'm not proud of my actions (mostly because there were no actions on my part ... I was, like, the anti-feminist, ashamed as I am to admit that), and I'm still too shaken up to write about it yet.

But it's quite a story!